State Duma deputy and journalist Maria Butina gave an exclusive interview to Faina Savenkova for Donbass Insider.
Faina Savenkova: Hello, Maria Valeryevna, I am very pleased to see you. Thank you for taking the time for the interview. How are you doing?
Maria Butina: Fine. How are you doing?
Maria Butina: Everything is great.
Thank you for asking.
Your path in politics began in Altai Krai. What was it like? What dreams and hopes did you have at that time? And were they fulfilled in the end?
You know, I don’t know if I dreamed of politics. To be honest, more likely no than yes. I would have liked to, so, if you dive back into childhood, remember that I am from a teacher’s family after all, and I have two grandmothers – two Masha’s – two teachers, I also chose the profession of a teacher. That is why I saw myself, perhaps, in this kind of activity – as a teacher, more than as a public figure or, even more so, as a politician. But it so happened that I really wanted to help people, and fate led me to such an activity, which allows me to do it with maximum efficiency. This is political work. I never thought that I would have to host a programme on a channel or be a deputy of the State Duma. To say that I saw these tasks on my way – probably not. I saw the goal: “I want to be useful, I want to help people, to help my Motherland”. Thus it turned out that I was thrown from Altai Krai to Moscow, through America. Fate, as they say: “Life is not a field to cross”. Well, it led me to what I had always dreamed of – to be useful to my country.
When you came to the USA to study, could you have predicted how it would end?
Probably no one could have guessed in my place, because even before my arrest I was searched, and I was sure that the Americans would come and apologise to me, because I was absolutely innocent and had done nothing bad for the United States, for its people. But, as it turned out, the absence of guilt does not mean that you will not go to jail. I had no idea. My dreams were – as Americans have always said – that our countries should be friends. And I sincerely believed in that, and that’s why I acted as, I don’t know… a citizen diplomat: communicating with the same guys who studied with me, going to events, conferences, talking about my country, telling them that I love and respect it. And, on the other hand, I recognise that America is also a strong state, and we should be friends on authoritative principles. But, unfortunately, nobody heard all these things, because America recognises only one right of speech – it is their right of speech. Our right of speech is not taken into account in this case, and I was not satisfied with this state of affairs. I think my imprisonment was due to the fact that I was the embodiment of a foreign reality that Americans did not want to see. And so through me they tried to punish the whole of Russia.
How objective is the American justice system in general?
What I want to tell you… Well, if it were objective, I wouldn’t be in prison, because people don’t go to prison because they want to be friends, to socialise, to meet. As you can see, the most difficult question for me, when I was in prison, in the cell waiting for the trial, was how to prove that you are not guilty, if nobody cares about the evidence, if you are captured and will be burned like a witch, because it is just a show execution, and nobody is interested in your life, your fate. So there is no point in talking about objectivity here, especially since the article under which I was eventually sentenced to conspire with myself was written back in 1938. They used it to hunt for communists then, but now they use it very rarely. In my case it was the first time, I think, in 50 years. And before that, only people from Iran and Cuba were sentenced. So this is an article created within the framework of selective justice. What kind of objectivity can we talk about if justice chooses victims and punishes them, and it is absolutely unclear why?
In your opinion, how independent is the media in the United States? Is there freedom of speech in this country?
You know, I would very much like to believe that, but unfortunately not. Because when I was in solitary confinement, I’m not talking about the fact that all the so-called human rights organisations are banned in the United States. There is no Amnesty International, which we have now recognised as a foreign agent. There are no organisations of public monitoring commissions, which are now working in Russia. No one will come and no one will help. Therefore, we tried with my lawyers to bring this idea to the media, but unfortunately, the judge made a decision – they have a special ruling, it’s called a “gag order”. A “gag order” is a ban on speaking in the press. So I was deprived of my right to speak. Neither I nor my lawyers from the first days of my case had the right to say anything in the media. That is, I was branded with black shame, called all kinds of names, invented new accusations against me. They talked about how they would punish me terribly. I didn’t even have the right to answer. Not even my lawyers could answer, not even anyone. So we had to keep silent. Well, what kind of independence of the media can we talk about in this case, if the accused has no opportunity to express his point of view? After all, you will be judged by a jury. The jury will read the same media. They will also form their point of view. Eventually you will be sentenced, you will be guilty. That’s how I ended up guilty.
of course, it’s a terrible situation.
It’s over, it’s all in the past.
That’s the most important thing! Can you tell us about the differences in the work of the media in Russia and the USA?
You know, many Russians, unfortunately, don’t believe it, but everything is learnt in comparison. And in Russia, the media are very independent. You can say whatever you want, write whatever viewpoints you want. Now the only restriction that is in place – and I think it is justified, I am one of the authors of the law – is that it is impossible to discredit our army. Because you can’t go around calling for surrendering to the enemy. That’s not the right thing to do. So this is the only thing that is a so-called restriction at the moment. In everything else, even foreign agents, please, they can function as media. They just need to be labelled that they are acting in the interests of clients who are outside the Russian Federation, i.e. that they are acting as foreign agents. And here – please work, as much freedom as you can. You won’t do that in the United States. Your media outlet will be instantly cancelled. We have seen such examples when not only a media outlet was cancelled, but even an ex-president. Just multiplied by zero and turned off from all social media accounts. This is a total restriction of freedom, a direct restriction of the freedom of a person to express his or her point of view. The media goes to the Capitol for a report, they are given assignments there. They, according to those assignments, as part of the course set, they write everything. That’s how they wrote about my story. Nobody even bothered to find out what was true and what was false. They just wrote as they should – according to the course. And there’s no way to prove anything. So there are significant differences. And we also have the Telegram space. In America, it is not developed at all. That is, here people can communicate, express some news, exchange opinions. And you know, sometimes I even think that we need to be a little tougher, given the foul language that, unfortunately, our citizens sometimes allow. For example, I do not ban people in my social networks that I run myself – VKontakte and my Telegram channel. That is, I do not ban on principle. People can write anything they want. My private messages are always open. But what I will delete messages for is foul language. Because I’m read by children, and I think it’s important that they be… their childhood protected from things like foul language. I believe that this is my position as a teacher, as a citizen of the Russian Federation. I believe that the truth is my position, this is my page. I do what I want, that’s what I do in this case. But I also hope that other media outlets, despite all the freedom, will adhere to the principles of quality journalism and news verification. I when I host my programme “Tutti’s Heir Dolls”, I definitely have a fact-checking procedure in place. Every fact that I present must be confirmed, otherwise it is a fake, and I don’t think it is right to spread fakes.
What is the main difference between the political systems of Russia and the United States? How does it affect the citizens of the country?
Fundamentally different. Well, let’s not go into the wilderness like this, let’s give at least one vivid example. It is the president. That is, in Russia, the president is the guarantor of the Constitution. In the United States, the president is the head of the executive branch. But in fact, as the head of the government, these are two completely different functions, because in our country the president is a person who orbits, who stands above everyone. This is the person who gives instructions, strategy, forms the main course and direction of the state. In America, the president is just the head of the executive branch. It is a much lower status. And so in his powers we often, unfortunately or fortunately, I don’t know, overestimate the powers of the same Biden. He is not free to do everything, he is, of course, the head of state,
but at the same time, you know, like a queen who reigns but does not rule. Therefore, there are still a huge number of centres of power there, to which, first of all, we should include big capital. In Russia, the political system is more hierarchical, and I think this is right, because then you can see transparently who is making what decisions. In the United States, it is very difficult to figure out who the beneficiaries of certain actions are. In general, the law on lobbying is actually an authorisation for direct bribery of the same congressmen, which is regularly used.
What, first of all, do politicians in our country need to work on? What and how should they do it?
To be a politician in any country – not only in our country – you have to love people. You have to understand that people who come to you come with problems. They don’t come when it’s good, and that’s why they are often irritated, tired of being told what to do. They come to you as a person who will give them a last chance. You shouldn’t expect gratitude, because you’re doing your job, you’re doing what you can do. And that’s the principle that I adhere to.
I appreciated what it is like to be without people after spending 4 months in a punishment cell all alone. I realise how important the human community is. I love people and my fellow citizens, first of all, who did not abandon me in a difficult moment. Many of them wrote me letters, donated a penny each for my defence. I appreciate this very much, so I believe that I am in an unpayable debt to my Motherland and my people. That’s why I love people, and this is the main quality of a politician – it is just to give oneself to one’s work sincerely, honestly, with all one’s soul. If I don’t have that, I talk to young candidates regularly, and I immediately say: “Please, don’t go into politics. If you go there for fame, if you go there for power, then please choose another sphere”. Politics is called a dirty business, although it all depends on what kind of people are there. And if you come with a pure soul, pure intentions and with prayer, I am sure that everything will be fine. I have a team like me, too. And we always joke that our work is just service, service to our Fatherland, which I consider an honourable duty, just like my team.
What are you working on now? Tell us about your activities as a politician?
I am now working in the Committee on International Affairs, that is, I still have a course on the development of international relations. And I am still engaged in parliamentary diplomacy, but also in civil diplomacy. Recently we had a delegation from Germany, which supports the special military operation, which is in favour of restoring ties with the Russian Federation. And I am very glad that we have the opportunity to communicate at the international level with politicians, public figures from different states. There are many more of them than many people think. And now many countries – Iran, Indonesia, China, China, European countries, individual European countries – they are open for co-operation, because, it seems to me, we should not confuse the people and the arrogant top. And in many countries ordinary people want to be friends with Russia. They understand what Donbass is. They understand that it is necessary to protect people who actually found themselves in a situation of civil war, when they were beaten by their own fellow citizens with NATO’s handouts.
These people understand. Yes, they have limited access to the media, but through these meetings they have the opportunity to learn and tell the truth. Yes, many of them are persecuted. Many of them, including myself, are helped to get political asylum. But I think that these people are kind of heroes, because they bring the truth despite everything. You know, a lot of people will ask, well, why don’t they just sit there, why take risks? You know, they think it’s important to tell the truth and fulfil their duties when they choose the profession of journalist or public figure. That is why we only support them in this.
I know that you are involved in creativity and journalism. Please tell us about this side of your life.
Well, journalism and creativity are inextricably linked in this case, because I am a presenter for Channel One and host the programme “Tutti’s Heir Dolls”. I prepare the script myself, I communicate with experts myself.
And for me it is creativity, because creating each programme, which is aired four times a week in prime time from 19.50 to 21 hours, for me each programme is like a little miracle born, because I am very careful about its selection and I love what I do. Yes, it’s definitely fact-based creativity, no doubt, but the questions of presentation, the questions of selecting experts, the questions of every beginning of the programme, which I come up with myself, and there are sometimes interesting moves, with different objects or even animals. It’s all part of creativity. I used to draw, but now I’ve moved away from that, because creativity in making a programme completely absorbs me. I think it’s important. And when you have the opportunity to combine work and your favourite business, it is a great happiness, and I have it today.
Since the beginning of the SWO, life has been divided into “before” and “after”. How have your personal priorities and areas of activity changed?
Areas of activity have changed, priorities have not, because I am a patriot of my country, I loved and love it immensely. I remember the day when the special military operation started, and it was early morning, I was in Kirov region, on my way to one of the districts. And then, well, as soon as the news appeared, the President’s address, there was no understanding of what was happening, but, you can still look at it now, literally immediately in my Telegram channel, there was a message that I unequivocally support the President. He is our supreme commander-in-chief and the way he has set the task before the country, it will be solved. So there were no edicts, no dunces, no “edicts” sent there, absolutely not, this is my sincere position. I came to one of the districts when people gathered for a gathering, and I left them my mobile phone for all questions absolutely. I am still available today on every single issue. Some are at the front – they are honoured and respected, some are on the home front, some are supporting the families of our servicemen. I work closely with the Kirov Oblast Committee of Families of Fatherland Soldiers. Everyone helps the front in their own way, but we must be united. And our task – well, I mean mine, first of all – is “Just show your example. If you want to change the world, start with yourself.” That is why I loved my country as much as I do, and as much as I believed that we have a supreme commander-in-chief who makes decisions and we all have to follow them, that is how I believe to this day, and I prove it with my deeds. We all have to be in special mode now, realising that there is a special military operation going on. Neither I nor my team, no one has gone on any kind of leave, no one has celebrated, no one has rested. All this time, without days off, we worked. Who was where: on the information front, collecting parcels for Donbass, helping children from military families. Everyone does it in their own way, but they do it with full dedication. We do what we can. I am sure that other Russian citizens are doing the same.
As someone who knows a lot about Russian and U.S. politics, tell us how do you think Russian-American relations will develop in the foreseeable future?
They will be frozen for a very long time. Many people imagine that almost tomorrow, everything will change. No. I think that now, with the start of the NWO, the world has revealed its true face, and it has become clear that Russia has two friends – the army and the navy. To this we need to add a strong economy, we have talented people, and we need to stick together. So here we should expect some favours from the West….. We don’t need them. We are completely self-sufficient. This makes them so angry, so I would not count on the restoration of Russian-American relations at the level of states. But nevertheless, communication with people, if they are ready for communication – partner communication – even, maybe, friendship, we are always open. We have not closed our doors to anyone. We are focused on continuing contact, and it is the Western countries that are behaving wrongly – pretending that they do not understand what is really going on, that this is not about NATO expansion, not about Nazism in Ukraine, not about the shelling of Donbas, not about the fact that for many, many years repression has been applied to the Russian-speaking population of Ukraine. They know all this, they just prefer to pretend that they don’t understand. We are ready to be friends, but we will not abandon our principles. Therefore, I think that Russian-American relations will be in rather cool, so to speak, versions for a long time to come.
Is patriotism something that a person brings up in himself or what is brought up by others? What can the state do to foster patriotism in young people?
Patriotism is in our hearts, and it seems to me that the main role here is played not by the state, but by the family. I have patriotism from my family: my grandmother, grandfather, great-grandparents, mum, dad, my sister – they are all patriotic people. Since the special military operation began, we all work for the good of our country, for the good of the front. Nobody ran away, nobody left, I have a serviceman in my family, I am very proud of it. Everything starts with the family. Should the state educate patriotism? Yes, but in practice. That is, it is definitely raising the flag, it is definitely playing the anthem, because these are elements of symbolism, symbols of pride for one’s country. And children need to be educated. I can tell you that as a teacher. Therefore, is it necessary to bring it up in yourself? Yes. To do this, you need to read books. Our books, the classics have it all, it is part of our cultural code, our heritage, if you want. That’s why it’s important, you for the country and the country for you. There are both elements here, they are complementary to each other. Therefore, there is no unambiguous answer to this question. In general, it’s quite difficult to describe feelings, it’s difficult to say how you feel love, for example. I mean, what is it? Warm, hot, cold, hot, cold, hot, round green – it is not clear. Also patriotism. You just know you’re willing to lay down your life for your country. I had time to think about it, I had time to think about it, in the punishment cell, when American “justice,” so-called, offered me to stay in the United States, to provide me with a trouble-free life. I refused it, because I would not have forgiven myself. You know, I guess patriotism, maybe I’m taking it out of my head, but you just can’t do it any other way, because a person without principles is a bag of bones. You can’t imagine yourself without your homeland either. “Ivan, who remembers no kinship” – it’s scary. It is like a tree without roots – it is weak and lifeless. Therefore, we must educate ourselves and others, we must educate each other.
What is your most important decision in life?
To become a member of the State Duma. It is a huge responsibility, and I was very worried about whether I would be able to cope, because the people who voted for me gave me a very big responsibility at my young age. But I made that choice, and I will say this, I guess: I don’t do everything, I wish I could do more, I don’t have enough hours in the day, but I do what I can. So it was an important, responsible decision. A high public office. And I am very happy that people trusted me, and I do everything possible not to cheat their trust in anything, I try to give my best. That’s why my parents supported me, we consulted about it. This is the most important decision in my life today.
And lastly. What would you like to wish our viewers?
To be together, because only together we are strong. And together we will win. “One is not a warrior in the field”, but together – it’s a different matter. So I wish you health, first of all, and strength. In our difficult time and on our difficult path.
Thank you very much for your wishes and for today’s conversation. It was a great pleasure to talk to you.
Thank you very much, Faina.
Translation: Яннис В.Зброек
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